1. A Long Time Core Contributor

    By and large, I think there is some reasonable discussion there about merging things into core early. The “plugins as features” paradigm has been tried for quite a while now, and while it is resulting in more “complete” pieces, it also seems like it is taking those longer and longer times before they are ready.

    Don’t get me wrong, I can see the benefits of building these big pieces of functionality separately, but at the same time, the audience for those pieces is much reduced by not having them in core very early on. When you are insulated and working amongst yourselves in a small group, then yes, you can iterate quickly, but then as you get further and further away from the main project, then you end up being isolated and alienated from it.

    Maybe we should consider for any new features like this to halve the distance. Use the feature-as-plugin paradigm up until to have a workable product, regardless of completeness, then merge it immediately into trunk. Get it out there, bring more eyeballs on it instantly. Trunk gets a LOT of views, and a lot of people run it. And the kind of people who run trunk don’t generally mind brokenness or incompleteness. You can iterate rapidly, but always with the notion of merge-to-trunk is a couple weeks away. Keep that pressure on.

    Maybe then we can get the most usefulness and speed out of this idea of features being separated from the main line. Because we always get value out of the main line, separating everything important leads to a vast gap, which seems undesirable. In the long run.


  2. Scott Bowler

    Hi Guys – creator of ClassicPress here!

    First, thank you for raising awareness of ClassicPress – as you said in your Podcast, WPTavern went a long way to getting the word out!

    You’re correct on a number of points that you raised:

    1. A fork is part of my attempt at raising awareness about Gutenberg, but it is still going to be a serious project
    2. I did put the cart before the horse – as a marketer and business founder it’s my job to see if there is a market fit before writing a single line of code. From the initial response I can see there is a legitimate need for ClassicPress and I will now be forging ahead (and the Github repo is now live)
    3. You’re right, this is far too much work for just one person and I will need the help of fellow developers and volunteers to make this work. We’ve already had a number of people volunteer their time and I hope this will be the beginning of something big

    After seeing all the discussions around ClassicPress I am more adamant than ever that this fork needs to happen. It’s going to be a hard road to walk, but it’s one I’m willing to take.

    – Scott Bowler


  3. Terence

    Banning what people say is not a solution. It’s just another low hurdle.

    Banning what people think (or being dismissive of their opinions [or not], won’t do it either. What’s needed is that we keep trying to change the way people think; permanently, globally.

    So goes the popular way of thinking in the Internet age. We have this wonderful method of communicating with each other, all of us, as individuals, across the entire planet. Now let’s all behave like we are kids in the school yard again, and getting people to join our gang is the most important issue.

    Its not.

    The most important thing is that we are talking to each other; not what we are saying.

    That’s what democratising publishing is all about.


  4. Justin Tadlock

    Jeff, the check is in the mail. You should see it any day now…


  5. Jerry Neal

    Maybe the title of this episode should have been: “Gutenberg – How WordPress became the Windows 8 of the Web”. Gutenberg will have it’s upside – the new WordPress user, the occasional blogger, etc., but using it myself, it’s not the flexible environment needed to develop an appealing website. 200,000 plus are voting now with the Classic Editor. Wait till Gutenberg launches as core and this number will explode. Why make such a dramatic changes to core? Why not allow Gutenberg to remain as a plugin and grow in features and more importantly, usability. We have builders such as Divi, Beaver Builder, and Elementor that are feature rich and function well as a plug in. So your suggestions is – to heck with the user experience and the millions of WordPress developers. Gutenberg should be released now and the world can get over it. Brilliant. Then we can all say we all stood around the flames of innovation and watch this great environment burn down.


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