15 Comments

  1. Jay

    I’m enjoying using Gutenberg for content, and as it improves with the help of plugins, I’m coming around to using it for full site design. But the spacer block has to be among the worst ideas the Gutenberg team has had. Adding it to the menu makes a bad idea worse.

    Report

  2. Stephen Vaughan

    I find it curious that one of the criticisms highlighted in the article, with the latest releases of Gutenberg, you mention broken CSS. Added to this the oddball spacer, leaves me cold regarding the new block editor. There is too much a touch of, we’re having fun experimenting here, and not enough of building something stable.

    Don’t get me wrong, fundamentally using the block editor is quite good, but I only use it sparingly. Once you start straying into something more ambitious it becomes very unwieldy.

    For example I have been running a test site with the excellent Kadence theme, very flexible and feature full. What let’s me down is not the theme itself but the way the block editor can suddenly go skew ways. For example I installed the much reviewed Editor Plus and imported one of its layout packs to a page. First impressions look good until you looked more closely and realise many element that were meant to be aligned centrally are not. It’s like margin auto was broken on one side. For the life of me, was it possible to fix easily… NO, defeating the purpose of the block éditer being the all dancing panacea for WordPress into the future.

    Part of me feels excited with the prospect that many page builders, that already donlayout far better than the block editor, would convert to become block based under the hood. Then again another part of me fears the regret that may come with this move.

    And, you would wonder what will happen to WooCommerce, still stuck in Classic land. It is like the third secret of Fatima. Is the Classic editor still set to disappear by the end of this year?

    Report

  3. Sebastian

    Thanks, Justin, for the nice summary.

    I’ve really been trying to like Gutenberg. Believe me, friends and neighbors, I really have. But when an editor starts messing with the HTML5 content model for no reason I really can’t come up with a smart defense anymore.

    A spacer block div? In a nav menu list? Are you kidding me? This is just plain wrong on so many levels!

    First of all, why would I ever want to include empty div containers for the purpose of styling at all? This is definitely not the way HTML content structures and web layouts are supposed to be created.

    What’s the next step following this approach? Table layouts? Transparent pixels? 🤔

    And of course you’re totally right: the children of a list element should be list items (https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-ul-element).

    How can something so flawed ever make it into a release? I am by no means a design Guru or programming genius. Far from it. And I certainly don’t want to sound snooty. But even I understand that this sort of rubbish is completely unacceptable.

    The least I expect from a content editor is that it allows me to make my own mistakes – not have it make them for me without my knowing.

    A bad tool is a bad tool, even for a skilled craftsman. I can always try to improve my own set of skills, but I can’t and certainly don’t want to spend my time fixing my tools. Not to mention the way those tools can and will be used by less skilled content producers (e.g. editorial departments).

    In the end it all boils down to the issue of reliability. Tools need to be reliable. A content editor has to function and output valid content reliably. It seems that Gutenberg is trying very, very hard to erode that reliability.

    Maybe I am overreacting, but it feels like it is about time to look for something else.

    Report

  4. Peter Müller

    Thank you for the detailed overview, and I absolutely agree that this spacer block thing is »one of the worst ideas the Gutenberg project has brought us«.

    I really like the block editor (aka gutenberg phase 1), but if a horizontal pixel width spacer block is the solution to whatever the problem may have been it will be quite a while before full site editing (aka gutenberg phase 2) becomes usable in any form …

    Report

  5. Gary Taylor

    “Maybe it is my old-school HTML upbringing, but it does not feel right to throw other things in the mix. List items are the children of lists.”

    You sound surprised, Justin, that WordPress would ever produce duff HTML code, even though you’re the author of a handy plugin that corrected Gallery output!

    By the way; does anyone else write and/or do template work on a 13.3″ screen, or is everyone using 21″-plus? I often feel a bit hemmed in (I have the right-hand toolbar open all of the time) and usually have to scroll down modals and pop-ups to find the option I’m looking for. Columns tend to be difficult with less space to work in. Just wondering.

    Report

  6. Andrew

    The navigation spacer block shows why there is a pressing need for more people to get involved in shaping the way Gutenberg evolves.

    Sometimes a PR needs someone to say “I don’t think this is a good idea, and here’s why…”, and open up the conversation to critical feedback, rather than two or three contributors all saying “yes”. Before you know it, that bad idea has made its way to release.

    Report

    • Justin Tadlock

      Agreed. However, I also think part of the problem is that it’s easy to miss these things. There are 2.8K tickets right now for Gutenberg. Keeping track of even a portion of those is mind-boggling. Even for someone like me who is following updates almost daily, I often don’t see something until it lands in a release.

      Report

      • Stephen Vaughan

        Justin, the fact that one has to go through the labyrinthine route to post on GitHub says it all about putting people off criticising or suggest feedback regarding the Gutenberg project.

        The pattern for most > find the plugin page for Gutenberg and add a review or, open a support ticket, only then to be told to go onto GitHub and open a PR. For most people following this suggestion it is just overkill. It should be enough for ideas and feedback to land in the plugin page and somebody with good UX and project skills should be triaging all this material and digesting it to realise where the core team are going wrong.

        That’s why I have given up on posting in feedback directly to WordPress when it is probably more effective to put some hard hitting comments on WP Tavern posts!

        It’s a pity because the core idea of the block editor is quite good till it strays off in some odd directions or doesn’t address some key important use cases such as data entry/WooCommerce updates.

        Report

  7. Just A Guy

    I want to create sites for clients using Gutenberg. But when I start a specification process for a big site, for an organisation with 30+ employees where the editors will undoubtedly be the most junior an inexperienced … I am in total fear of letting them loose with this rather unstable and weird system.

    I know this will be deeply unpopular but I notice that most of the Gutenberg cheerleaders are only running really simple blog type sites. It’s very rare that I follow a project contributor and see they’ve struggled with the same massive monster projects as I encounter at work.

    It’s fine to use Gutenberg on a blog with a couple of additional pages. As soon as we start to look at sites with 5 CPTs, custom layouts, bespoke blocks, additions to allow layout switching, capabilities for templates. It all starts to fall apart really very quickly.

    Gutenberg still seems like a tool to edit blogs about making Gutenberg.

    Report

    • Stephen Vaughan

      Have to agree with you there. The larger a site, its complexities and the more users of mixed abilities, the more the odds go up that something will go awry.

      There seems to be an misconception in the tech industry that any body and every body can be a genius user/programmer. The reality is a lot different. The cognitive load is often too much for those either new to, or unwilling to learn and engage properly. I am not saying that we are dealing with rocket science. It definitely is not that complicated.

      I would say that with any of the editors, classic, block or whatever comes with a page builder, they do have their demands. To mitigate against this the best UX possible needs to be applied. The team behind the block editor aren’t doing us any favours by ignoring certain use cases.

      You mention a site with 5 CPTs. I would often have a post type that is set up primarily for data entry, designed for the controlled capture of information in a concrete format and then fronted with a template to display all this in a uniform manner across all post instances. This mitigates against complete disorder on the site. The way that the block editor is implemented in WordPress it appears above any custom field groups designated in a CPT, inviting users to go wild with free form content. To this end I created my own rudimentary plugin to style out the block part of the editor. I would rather see the Gutenberg team address these practical matters rather than FSE which does nothing for me. I can achieve full site editing in much more enjoyable way with a good page builder.

      To a degree you are correct in saying that Gutenberg still seems like a tool to edit blogs about making Gutenberg.

      Report

  8. Alex

    These updates are killing me. I have a website with hundreds of posts and courses, all built with the Gutenberg. The latest updated changed the behaviour to how the ‘space’ between paragraph (ie: empty space) works. Previously it was not taking hardly any space, now it takes up some 40 pixels in height.

    All my blog posts and courses are massively spread out now and looks like a big on my whole site.

    Any idea if there is a fix for this or will I have to go through every single post and update to avoid these massive gaps between paraphs?

    Report

    • Justin Tadlock

      It will depend on your theme. Most likely, you’ll need to adjust the top or bottom margin for paragraphs. Not knowing what your design is like, I can only give you some general advice. Try one of the following two CSS adjustments. It should work but may need some adjustment.

      p {
          margin-top: 2rem;
      }

      Or:

      p {
          margin-bottom: 2rem;
      }

      If it doesn’t change anything at all, you’ll need to ask your theme author or hop over to the WordPress.org support forums.

      Report

    • Param Chahal

      Do not automatically update your production environment.

      Test any updates in staging environment first.

      This is more important than ever since Gutenberg.

      Report

  9. Sebastian

    Spacer block within the navigation? Very interesting…

    I know, why I still don’t use Gutenberg on any productive site. How can I “trust” people which implement such solutions?!

    My only idea to explain that to myself is, that they think, people that have no clue of code, will don’t care.

    Now, I want to play around with the Mozilla Composer this evening…

    Report

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: