27 Comments

  1. Mike Schinkel

    This is a great get Sarah!

    So now I would say one of the additional arguments for using Vue.js is that the core developer for Vue is accessible to the WordPress community and seems willing to accommodate WordPress’ needs. Is there any chance that the React team managers will do similar?

    Also, imaging if Automattic funded $5k/mon to You; half the price of a good JS developer? I’d bet that would get him heavily involved with ensuring that JS integration into WordPress was a major success. But would $5k.month motivate Facebook…?

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    • Howdy_McGee

      While I understand your point I don’t think buying a framework for strict WordPress integration is the way to go. The Vue / React camp probably wouldn’t want to add featured specifically to accommodate any WordPress needs nor do I think they should have once the decision is made.

      The framework should commit to being better than it was previously without worrying about what WordPress is building or planning to do. I think it is cool that the You is putting in his 2 cents and is being vocal during the process though.

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      • Mike Schinkel

        The Vue / React camp probably wouldn’t want to add featured specifically to accommodate any WordPress needs nor do I think they should have once the decision is made.

        I was not suggesting they accommodate WordPress’ needs with any kind of bespoke functionality. What I meant was that WordPress’ needs are likely to get a higher prior than the average Joe wanting something added to Vue.

        Assuming Vue had a large number of general purpose feature requests then the few WordPress needs most might get more attention, and sooner.

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      • mark k.

        If this is the way forward, automattic can sponsor one of its developers to work on vue….. the problem is that there is still no explanation how does any of the frameworks solve the essential core wordpress JS problems – hooking,localization and dynamically activate/deactivate modules.

        First the problems need to be spelled out, only then a decision can be made, and maybe vue, being smaller and probably more agile, is more likely to agree to add thing to accommodate wordpress needs than react.

        But it is a pointless discussion gutenberg uses react, and with every line of code being written there, the cost of transitioning to anything else becomes higher and less likely to happen.

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      • Leo

        the problem is that there is still no explanation how does any of the frameworks solve the essential core wordpress JS problems – hooking,localization and dynamically activate/deactivate modules.

        I believe the WordPress community will still need to implement its own wp.js framework based on top of whichever JS framework is chosen, if only to deliver those same functionalities, and so that programmers need not re-invent the wheel each time they develop for WP.

        It should not be hard to do: JS objects can register functions under a handle and then execute those functions, to simulate hooking. Localization can be done by passing the already-localized values from the back-end using WP REST API. And activate/deactivate modules can be simulated by loading/not-loading components (either from React or Vue).

        A wp.js may even abstract the chosen JS framework to resemble as much as possible WP, so that developers will still feel at home when programming using JS and not PHP.

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    • Hashim Warren

      I think the Chinese mega corporations that use Vue will have a bigger influence in it’s future than WordPress

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      • Mike Schinkel

        That is likely very true.

        But it is also orthogonal to my assertion, which was that WordPress is likely to get more attention from the developer(s) of Vue than from the developer(s) of React. Regardless of whether there are other organizations that get more attention that WordPress.

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  2. Paul Gibbs

    Vue.js all the way! ?

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  3. Ben

    Thank you for helping add clarification and being responsive, especially as I hope that helps WordPress choose Vue.js

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  4. Kevin

    React should have never even been considered because it’s license allows Facebook to revoke your use of React if you compete with Facebook.

    What happens if you build a great WordPress/React based project, then Facebook decides to enter your domain? Do you have to then shut-off your project until you build it in another JS framework?

    React is pseudo open-source. Why would WordPress ever consider aligning with it?

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    • Gary

      …because it’s license allows Facebook to revoke your use of React if you compete with Facebook.

      No, it doesn’t.

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    • Elio

      The license + patent grant show clearly that it’s not like that. In any case, here’s a FAQ from Facebook where they specifically address this concern:

      Does the additional patent grant in the Facebook BSD+Patents license terminate if I create a competing product?

      No.

      https://code.facebook.com/pages/850928938376556

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    • chuck

      Using React gives FB the ability to revoke your license if you file a legal complaint against them for IP infringement.

      So, you create something cool and you patent or trademark it. FB decides they want it, so they steal it. You file a legal proceeding against them. They revoke your license. You may be right but you’ll starve while watching your bank account vanish in attorney/court costs, while they get an injunction against you so you have to yank React out of your project.

      Not a big risk for the sole developer making plugins for the knitting club. But infect WP core with this and the stakes will be much higher.

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  5. Vitor Madeira

    Lesson number one: OpenSource software is not the same as Free software.

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  6. Dmitri

    Another important point of view about choosing React vs Vue for our WordPress project was issue with React license. It has a very strange part:

    The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, if you (or any of your subsidiaries, corporate affiliates or agents) initiate directly or indirectly, or take a direct financial interest in, any Patent Assertion: (i) against Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, (ii) against any party if such Patent Assertion arises in whole or in part from any software, technology, product or service of Facebook or any of its subsidiaries or corporate affiliates, or (iii) against any party relating to the Software. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if Facebook or any of its
    subsidiaries or corporate affiliates files a lawsuit alleging patent
    infringement against you in the first instance, and you respond by filing a patent infringement counterclaim in that lawsuit against that party that is unrelated to the Software, the license granted hereunder will not terminate under section (i) of this paragraph due to such counterclaim.

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    • Otto

      I have no particular opinion in this discussion, but this interested me, so I went and had a look at the license. Seems pretty clear to me that this is patent-troll protection. They revised it a few times, and it’s quite clear now what their intentions are.

      Anybody saying otherwise isn’t really reading the thing. This seems like a non-issue.

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      • Tim Kaye

        Actually, Otto, it’s a huge issue for precisely the reason that chuck has given above:

        So, you create something cool and you patent or trademark it. FB decides they want it, so they steal it. You file a legal proceeding against them. They revoke your license. You may be right but you’ll starve while watching your bank account vanish in attorney/court costs, while they get an injunction against you so you have to yank React out of your project.

        And yes, I’ve read the thing. If Facebook just wanted patent-troll protection, it would have used the Apache 2 license. There’s a reason it didn’t.

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      • Mike Schinkel

        Tim Kaye – If I understand correctly, you are a lawyer, right?

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      • Tim Kaye

        Mike Schinkel: You understand correctly.

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      • Chuck

        I generally don’t try to infer intentions of a company by reading their contract language. I read the contract with the understanding that it alone will be exhibited in any legal proceeding. I’ve never been in a court where the judge called for the review of intentions.

        With that perspective, re-read the license and tell me if you get to the same conclusion, given this scenario:

        a. You are a SW company that incorporates React as a key technology in your product.

        b. You later find that FB is infringing on your intellectual property, so you file a legal complaint against them.

        Are you confident enough in the written contract to conclude that since you are not a nasty patent troll FB will forgo their right to revoke your license?

        Or, will they see the leverage they have over you and act upon it?

        (hint…it’s the second answer…)

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      • Vitor Madeira

        This means that this is not free software.
        Tiny but very important detail.

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  7. Marion

    In terms of adoption rate, Vue is already cleaely ahead of React:

    https://w3techs.com/technologies/comparison/js-react,js-vuejs

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  8. Norris

    From all the topic comments I’ve read, it looks like 75% of the community wants Vue instead of React ( a completely unscientific estimation ). Personally, I don’t care as long as React isn’t the framework used. I think it goes against the development simplicity that WordPress currently possesses.

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  9. Gavin

    Good to see this.

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  10. sabitertan

    All in for Vue.js!!

    here is my comment if you’d like to read:
    https://make.wordpress.org/core/2017/05/24/javascript-chat-summary-for-may-23rd/#comment-32758

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