17 Comments

  1. Brian Gardner
    · Reply

    Justin, as always, your insight is on point and highly prophetic. (At least in terms of what we are building with Frost.) It’s starting to feel like you are eavesdropping (not really) on our conversations because every time I see a new post like this, I’m like, “Exactly, which is why we are building what we are building.”

    I can assure you that your coverage here on the Tavern regarding WordPress, blocks, patterns, layouts, theme.json, etc., is not falling on deaf ears. That’s a promise.

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    • Victor Marsala
      · Reply

      Hey Brian, just a heads up: the Frost website has a content box that says
      “Aethestic Design” instead of “Aesthetic Design” and almost reads like Atheistic.

      Also thanks for Genesis existing but it is one of the reasons I have a job today.

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  2. Steve Grant
    · Reply

    I like the terms “Page Layout” and “Page Sections” for these items.

    The word “patterns” is continually confusing to most clients. I’ve found that users think of checkerboard patterns, tiled patterns, decorative patterns. Even after I tell them what patterns are, they forget by the following week.

    Meanwhile “Layout” is more familiar term for most office workers, as it’s often heard when they are dealing with PDFs, Brochures, and such.

    A Google search for “define: patterns” versus a search for “define: Layout” brings expected definitions and reinforces my point that Gutenberg page layout presets should be called “Page Layouts” to aid understanding and acceptance by general non-technical users.

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    • Andre
      · Reply

      I have to agree on the “Page Layouts” terminology. Patterns bring to mind…” sewing”. I’m seeing everything involving “layouts”, and sure, sections too if it’s a full-page layout. In a way, the method of using WordPress and blocks reminds me of laying out a page as it relates to desktop publishing–building pages. Yes, I’ve used QuarkXpress, PageMaker, and some InDesign :)

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    • Justin Tadlock
      · Reply

      I prefer sections and layouts too.

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    • Digamber
      · Reply

      +1 to sections and layouts as well. I never really even considered it – but – yes – while patterns are easy for devs to understand a client definitely will think of tiles and checkers – to prevent this pointless explanation process – i hope we call it layouts and sections too.

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  3. Sally G
    · Reply

    As usual, I am an outlier; though I would probably be willing to start with a full-page design, I also would want to be able to adapt it.

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  4. Blake Bertuccelli
    · Reply

    What about full “site templates”?

    We tested prebuilt patterns, page layouts, and full site templates with Edupack users. Novice WordPress users were most comfortable with full site templates that gave them prebuilt websites, tuned to their use cases.

    Site layouts were attractive to folks with some idea of the content they wanted on their websites, and the concept of any type of “pattern” was only understood by folks with some design experience.

    Designing the editor to meet a user’s experience level would be a super great way to meet users with features that march their experience.

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    • Sally G.
      · Reply

      I guess the question is, who are the users? How much design experience do they have, how much do they want to know? I maintain sites for a few grassroots groups, self-selected based on interest and experience (very limited compared to probably anyone here, but some, and a print “desktop publishing” background from the 1990s). I am likely not a typical user, but I want customization options, not just frames into which to drop my materials, which are sure to vary to greater or lesser degree.

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    • Justin Tadlock
      · Reply

      “Pattern” is just the current terminology in core. This is more of a content layout on a per-page basis.

      I’m not a big fan of using templates for some of this because it can often mix the content layer and the site structure layer. It depends on the specific use case though.

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  5. Aris
    · Reply

    If I remember well Twentig, the extension plugin for Twenty Twenty and Twenty Twenty One themes, offert also “strater kits”, ready made full page templates (or patterns).

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  6. Andrew
    · Reply

    We have page/post templates (both classic and block based).
    We also have block patterns.

    Would be great to have the functionality for a theme to optionally define a template and pattern combination.
    For example the page layout of Template A with the content design of Pattern 2.

    These two aspects of presentation are currently disconnected from one another.

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    • Justin Tadlock
      · Reply

      That would be pretty sweet. I have an “open canvas” type of template that does not display the header and footer. Coupling a full-page pattern (or whatever they might be called) with that template by default would be awesome for landing pages. It’d be one less step for users.

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