1. Timothy Jacobs

    Yeah I think “frustrated” is the best way to put it. I wish I had more concrete feedback about why that is. It doesn’t feel like it is ready to ship out users in Core to me.

    Since nothing really will change for users once FSE is in Core, I think including the feature in 5.8 won’t cause a major issues. But I’m struggling to understand the benefit of shipping an MVP like this. I’d have a hard time recommending to any user that they should actually use FSE on a production site at this point.

    If it’s about getting more feedback, then we should find a better way to solicit more users to try the Gutenberg plugin and try turning on the experiment, instead of shipping it in Core. It feels like Core inclusion will just lock us in to BC issues.


    • Esther Stein

      instead of shipping it in Core. It feels like Core inclusion will just lock us in to BC issues.

      Exactly this.

      Features should be added to core only once they are finished and carefully tested. Current concept with ongoing changes in core produces so much technical debt which has to be taken into consideration for every future release of core and by every theme and plugin author.


  2. Anne McCarthy

    Justin! Thanks again for doing yet another write up and encouraging others to test. Super neat to see what you created. As a fellow rule breaker, this both made me nod my head solemnly and laugh. I promise I wasn’t trying to break you and I understand the sentiment. Coming up with this call for testing nearly broke me likely for similar reasons you ran into when you tried to build your own thing. I’d love to hear a bit more about that experience unless you’re not interested in reliving the horrible memories (truly, no pressure)! In case it helps, I filed a number of issues while I was creating this that you can skim through here: https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues?q=is%3Aissue+author%3Aannezazu

    I also want to note that, while the tests are intentionally constrained right now, I’m keen to do future call for testings where there is a prompt to replicate different aspects of a site. Originally, I was intending to do that with this one by offering three levels of testing (easy, intermediate, advanced header options) before realizing the tooling just isn’t quite there. I went back to the tried and true method after spending a few somewhat frustrating hours in replication mode.

    Wide and full block alignments completely disappeared after activating TT1 Blocks.

    Can you say more here? I ask because I can still see those options available but there was a recent release of TT1 blocks today to (0.4.5) in order to update to the latest alignment and layout specifications: https://github.com/WordPress/theme-experiments/pull/236 I’m also curious what exactly is causing that white bar in between sections of your header. For now, I’m going to flag this for some themers to see if they have thoughts about what issue might need to be flagged.

    As for adjusting the Site Block in general, changing the size actually can be done already thanks to Global Styles. Here’s a short video: https://cloudup.com/c6W7yjZouA0 More options to come with Global Styles too! That’s another aspect of the wider FSE projects that I’m keen to do more testing with.

    Your comment around wanting spacing in between navigation items has been discussed in various issues:


    Currently, this is seen as a low priority but there seems to be agreement to not fully on theme styles to provide this and to offer some options people can pick from.

    Finally, a nearly said “YES!” outloud to your ending comments around adding a background image. This came up previously in an earlier call for testing and was reported here: https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/29238 I added your thoughts in for good measure :)


    • Justin Tadlock

      If I were to pinpoint what I think the major hurdle Gutenberg needs to cross it would be “layout building.” When I say that, I mean it needs to tackle spacing, width, and height in an intuitive way for users. The header I wanted to recreate earlier in the post is a good example of where the site editor needs to be going. From a user standpoint, how do I build that? Forget about the image, fonts, and stylistic aspects. The underlying issue right now is that I don’t see any way to lay each of those elements out on the page.

      For the alignments, the “wide” and “full” options were simply not showing up on any blocks. In particular, I was looking at the Cover, Group, and Columns blocks. I did update to the latest TT1 Blocks, so I’m not sure if that was an issue. I tested against Gutenberg 10.2.1 and 10.3. Fortunately, some things were already fully aligned, so I just didn’t touch anything.

      You can see the toolbar alignment option is missing altogether for Columns here:

      Columns block with no align toolbar

      Same thing happened with the Group block. The Cover block only had left, right, and center.


      • Anne McCarthy

        Ah ha, yes. This makes perfect sense and is actively being iterated on right now. It’s being tracked at a high level here:


        You can see more details around dimension control across blocks in this issue too:


        As for the Columns block missing alignment options, this is likely due to confusion around the overall Columns block vs the nested Column block. Here’s a quick video where you’ll see the Columns block has the option for full width but the Column block doesn’t: https://cloudup.com/cYOe-eSb_iK I ran into this quite a few times and struggled to find it to be intuitive. Expect this to be something I touch on in the recap post for this call for testing :)

        While I’m sharing context in the form of issues, I want to make it clear that I agree with you and am excited to see the team already working to improve this. Thanks for following up!


        • Justin Tadlock

          Thanks for sharing issues/links. Those are helpful.

          The missing wide and full alignments are not limited to just the Columns block. It’s an across-the-board issue that I’m seeing. I’ve tested with the TT1 Blocks, Block-Based Bosco, and Armando themes. No blocks, including Image, Video, Columns, Group, Cover, etc. have the wide/full alignment options. When I revert to a non-FSE theme, these options return.


  3. Ari Stathopoulos

    Just wanted to add my 2c about shipping an FSE MVP in WP5.8 :)
    True, not everything will be possible in the MVP. Users will want to do things that will not be possible out of the box in the initial version. But that’s what an MVP is.
    It doesn’t have to be able to do everything under the sun, simply set the foundation, something we can work on and iterate as we go.

    Just like the block-editor when it was first included in core didn’t have all the blocks and options it has now, it keeps evolving and improving. But that evolution would not have been possible if it was not merged in core…

    FSE has the benefit of not breaking anything. Nothing changes for existing users on existing themes, they won’t even know it’s there unless they use a theme specifically built for Full Site Editing.
    Right now the APIs are solid, the foundation is all there, and using a carefully crafted FSE theme can result in amazing results.
    Is it perfect? Nope! But what is?
    Does it work? Yes.
    Can I build a site with it? Yes!

    Using TT1-blocks as a measure of “readiness” is wrong IMO. We use it because at this point in time it’s the de-facto, “official” FSE theme, but it’s not an indication of what FSE is capable of doing, or what an FSE site will look like. It’s just a testing tool, built to resemble an opinionated core theme.


    • Justin Tadlock

      I’m hoping we push FSE into WP 5.8. I think it’s nearly ready enough to go in as an MVP. Like you said, the only users who will be able to access it will be those who made a direct choice to run an FSE theme. Getting it out sooner means we can get more people testing it too.


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