Hello everyone!

I'm the aforementioned Beagle.

I just wanted to come on here because there is clearly a bit of confusion going on.

Firstly, this was an MSN conversation with a friend, so you'll have to excuse the punctuation etc.

Secondly, I'd like to address what seems to be the main point some people are making, because I think there are really two different points here which I didn't appreciate until I read what some of you are saying.

The GPL is explicit about what constitutes a derivative work, and themes/plugins are derivative work.

Quite frankly, that doesn't matter.

I can walk around screaming that every sign made with paint I made is a derivative work. That doesn't make it true.

The GPL license can say whatever it likes, that doesn't require the release of any original work as GPL. That's just the plain fact.

Some people seem to be saying that, "Once you make a Wordpress theme and use it with Wordpress, your theme is GPL'd".

Err, no, it's not. It doesn't matter what the GPL says, Wordpress.org has absolutely no power whatsoever to alter a copyright owned by another person. They can claim whatever they like as derivative works, but unless it actually is a derivative work, then it has nothing to do with Wordpress. Whether it is a derivative work or not is a question of law, not what the GPL says.

Basically, Wordpress claiming any copyright (which is effectively what they're doing) over your theme or plugin is like saying that Apple has copyright over all Griffin's accessories 'cause they were made to fit with Apple products.

The GPL does not prevent you from creating and selling themes that are not GPL licensed, but using them in conjunction with Wordpress (or any other GPL’d software) would be a violation of the theme’s non-GPL license.

I think you meant to say a violation of the license with Wordpress.org. This is the other argument I was referring to, and this is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Personally, I think there about thirty million holes in that argument, but I'd need to really sit down with it an nut something out. I don't think it would stand up in court in New Zealand. Europe may be different, as the basis of European copyright tends to revolve around some kind of intrinsic ownership of the work, rather than the commercial justification used in most common law countries. The DMCA is different again, and the American courts are so erratic it's hard to say which way they'll go next.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but basically I don't agree at all with these lawyers who think that Wordpress.org has any power whatsoever to dictate what can and cannot be done with their GPL'd software. It's my experience that lawyers do a lot of sabre-rattling, and that this is basically what this is.

As someone who’s spent quite a bit of time talking to actual lawyers about the issue, I can say with a high degree of confidence that your friend Beagle should not be relied on for legal advice.

Err, if lawyers always gave the same advice, and had the same opinion, why would anything ever go to court?